Making Work, Work

On 20 November 2019, Obelisk Support joined the first UK edition of Women, Influence & Power in Law UK (WIPL UK), a conference gathering senior female in-house lawyers and private practice lawyers to discuss leadership and legal issues. A topic the event came back to more than once was the challenge of managing multiple generations in a legal team. Lawyers are working longer and as a result, legal teams and corporate teams in general are a more diverse group which creates a relatively new issue – generational diversity.

Generations & Generational Stereotypes

To understand generations in your legal team, it’s important to define them:

  • Baby boomers, also known as Boomers, are the generation that were born mostly following World War II, typically born from 1946 to 1964.
  • Generation X, commonly abbreviated to Gen X, is the generation born from the early-to-mid 1960s to the early 1980s.
  • Millennials, also known as Generation Y, are the cohort of people born from the early 1980s to the mid-1990s to early 2000s.
  • Generation Z, or simply Gen Z, is the cohort of people born after the Millennials. Sometimes known as digital natives as they do not know a world without the internet.

Generational stereotypes could be harmless if they did not get in the way of work.

  • Boomers are perceived as being out of touch and disinterested in learning new skills,
  • Gen X are perceived as cynical loners at work that make poor team members, and
  • Millennials are perceived as snowflakes.

Each of these stereotypes, whether or not based on truth, reveals deep divides that can create real issues when approaching problems. How do you get older people to work with younger ones without being patronising? How do you help younger workers see they have to build up experience before promotion comes? That’s why getting past stereotypes is the only way forward in successful legal teams. In fact, research done at the University of Kentucky and Kutztown University reports that despite the many stereotypes of each generation, there is no real difference when it comes to work ethic or job values.

There are, however, different expectations.

Motivation & Talent Retention

For Mitzi Berberi, Former Vice President and Deputy General Counsel, FOX Networks, age and generation really impacted her team when it came to motivation. Before generational diversity was well understood, the prevailing attitude was that motivating teams was standard. Successful lawyers were rewarded with more (and hopefully, better) work and got promoted to work some more. However that is not the case for newer generations — they don’t perceive rewards the same way as the older generation. They perceive additional workloads as punishments rather than rewards, which begs the question – how do you motivate them?

According to Katherine Thomas, General Counsel, Travelodge, human nature is such that we don’t understand why others are not excited by same things as us. It is important for people to understand what motivates other members of the team. The diversity debate has so far focused largely on gender, orientation and ethnicity but we talk less frequently about age. This was reinforced by Natalie Tan, Global Head Legal Strategic Transactions, Novartis Pharmaceuticals. At large companies, there are women’s groups, LGBTQ+ groups, but there are no places for younger and older generations to get together. Age transcends all the other diversity issues and so far, it’s mostly visible in a negative light.

An employment lawyer in the audience mentioned how sexual orientation and age have become huge issues, resulting in a lot of complaints for age discrimination.

Ageism & Industry

Ageism, or any discrimination based on age, depends a lot on the sector and how the issue of age is viewed as discussed by the panel. While people in the pharmaceutical industry are traditional, viewing age and experience as qualifications to take account before promoting people, the media industry skews towards the very young. In that work sphere, the younger generation perceives older people as outdated.

Unconsciously, Gen X lawyers start taking themselves out of some roles and wonder where they are going next. Pushing ageism to the extreme, some professionals wonder if they need to take botox to remain relevant. In the media where professionals feel older much younger, the only way up is to move to HQ but most are in fact too young for HQ where the customer base expects senior executives.

In the legal industry, age is a double-edged sword. In private practice, it’s about how much PQE lawyers have. Age is really valued by clients, to the point that some clients want “grey hair” in leadership positions for their team. It’s the opposite in-house. For their external resourcing, some clients call legal services providers to look for an experienced lawyer (7 years PQE is the magic number) but not someone who is too experienced. Said a member of the audience, “lawyers go stale and are not employable anymore after 8 years PQE.”

How do you re-position the age debate to make it work for all generations?

Age & Work Sustainability

The legal industry needs to innovate and promote work sustainability, acknowledging that some solicitors don’t want to go up the corporate ladder. After a while when their colleagues don’t get promoted to senior positions, people judge and wonder why they are coasting, why they are not partners yet.

Work life balance is changing. Not everybody wants to be promoted and there’s nothing wrong with that. People should be allowed to have a sustainable career and it should not be perceived as “wrong.”

Moving away from PQE

Does the legal profession need to move away from PQE? All attendees agreed that in the UK, PQE is used as a tag to categorise lawyers but it is a bit lazy. Years of experience is relevant but it’s relevant experience that matters – not PQE. Some generalists with a long work experience could be less well-placed to take on an issue than juniors with less but very niche experience. Valuing relevant experience would shift the focus in legal teams from age to skills.

Generational Diversity Tips for General Counsels

Generational diversity means that general counsels need to tailor to the individual a lot more. A few tips suggested by WIPL panel and audience included the following:

  • Understand what motivates your team.
  • Build internal policies with age in mind. Family policies are not just about children. People have siblings, parents who are getting older.
  • Empower the younger generation and help them capitalise on their enthusiasm, embracing who they are and what their individual skills are. If they are too casual, show them how to behave in the job that they want and in the way they want people to perceive them.
  • Give older team members more autonomy and responsibility, praise them for what they is good at. Something as small as a title change can really help how they perceive a job. Indeed if they older, chances are their friends have senior titles. Instead of “senior counsel,” change their title to senior legal counsel.
  • Be sensitive. The general counsel of a large publisher had a very young team that included a person who only qualified recently as a lawyer and was very sensitive to PQE. In their team, they don’t talk about PQE. The general counsel of a large multinational had a baby boomer on the team and wondered if she should approach the retirement conversation or not. When she did mention it, the person hadn’t thought about it so they mutually agreed to develop her in the same way as other members on the team and ignore the retirement issue.
  • Encourage flexible working. Some people want a better life and don’t want to spend two hours a day in commute. Said Thomas, “I don’t care at what time you do your job if you get it done. Ultimately, you know how long have been working for.” In-house have a responsibility to push flexible working on private practice. She went on, “Tell them you don’t want emails at midnight or during weekends. Tell the lawyers who have kids, ‘It’s fine, send it to me tomorrow morning.’ Nobody needs to send an email at midnight to make a point.”
  • Encourage time management best practices. While private practice has long been a stronghold of face time and long hours, in-house culture has shifted away from this. Some European countries actually look unfavourably on long hours. German lawyers are strict about work hours and managing day hours efficiently. They have a very mathematical view of time management: if you work long hours, either you are not able to work efficiently or you’ve got too much work to do and they need to hire another person. Long hours and being online at midnight mean that you’re not able to do your job in your work hours and it makes lawyers look bad. If a team member works long hours, have a conversation about efficiency and best practices.
  • Minimise meetings. Lawyers don’t need to attend all meetings unless they are necessary. If they’re called to a meeting, suggest that they find out what the agenda is and check whether they are needed there. There are only so many hours in a working day and meetings can reduce productivity if not managed efficiently.

Ultimately, GCs are responsible for managing workload but also people which is the way it should be. Age diverse teams mean that GCs need to learn how to develop personally and professionally, strengthening their ability to flex their management style to each individual’s needs.

 

Women in Law

Returning to work after a career break is tough. If you’re struggling to find a way back, don’t give up hope. Though it may seem like there are many obstacles in your path, there are practical steps you can take to regain your confidence and find work that works for you. That’s the message that Lisa Unwin and Deb Khan want to give women with their new book, She’s Back. Lisa  set up her consultancy of the same name as she was tired of hearing similar stories from women struggling to return to work, and decided to channel her energy to provide tactics and strategies to help them. Simultaneously straight talking and empathetic, we guarantee you will walk away from reading our interview with Lisa feeling fired up and ready to take back control of your career…

Tell us about your own experience of returning to work, and how that led you to where you are now and writing the book?

“I had what I thought was a successful career. I had started out with Arthur Andersen in 1988. As the firm collapsed in 2001 after the Enron scandal, I moved across to Deloitte who backed the firm in the UK. I was director of brand and communication there, until the wheels came off. Our nanny handed in her notice just as our children were starting school. I quite suddenly found myself struggling to work out how I was going to manage bringing up my children and managing a demanding career, and decided to take a career break. There I was a few years later wondering what happened. I had 20 years of experience behind me, and no future plan. I looked around at the school gates and saw so many people in this situation: accounts lawyers, management consultants, all trying to get back to work. That led to setting up a consultancy – there wasn’t a business model or anything to begin with but I started out by getting sponsored by organisations to do some research to prove that this was a real issue, and began looking at ways we could help them. To put a spotlight on the issue I was doing lots of writing and getting people involved in the community, and with my business partner Deb decided to write a book, which came out this year and has been well received.”

What are the most common things you hear from women who have taken a career break?

“That they are leaving because of a lack of ability to balance young children and career. Couples are making decisions about whose career will take back seat in the months and years to come, but there is no long term plan for how to get back, so when the children get older and the time comes for the person to return to work – and it is still primarily the woman – they have no idea how to get back. I can’t claim to be an expert on gender roles generally, I can only talk about what we see in the circles we work with, but professional women tend to pair with professional men, and statistically marry older men, so in general when children come along it is the woman expected to take the hit and very few see it any other way.

The other most common thing I hear when women approach me is : ‘Can you help me, I am a mum with two children, looking for flexible work?’ Being a mum doesn’t differentiate you; and you are already defining yourself as a problem by leading with what you need to work around. It’s only after you hear this that you find out they have 20 years legal experience in the City! We need to change the approach.”

So, is there an issue with the way women perceive themselves when taking a career break?

“Yes, and I say that with complete understanding of how hard it is and the difficulties that we face – we are emotional after becoming parents, and so many people live far away from family support networks nowadays, it is very hard. I say women don’t help themselves because I did and said the same things myself! I started by thinking ‘ok I need something that will work around the school run’, so I was looking on flexible working websites. But only 11% of quality professional jobs are being advertised as flexible positions – employers often will be open to flexibility in discussions but they won’t lead an advert with it, so nor should you. Tell people you were 20 years working with big four firms and you’re looking for new opportunities to apply legal skills to – that is the difference. You are 5 times more likely to find work through introductions in your network than through recruiters, but they need to have something to tell that person other than ‘she needs to work flexibly!’

We often don’t acknowledge how vulnerable and lacking confidence we can become once we have children. We can start to remember differently how our work lives went and think we only got there by luck. You starting losing touch with that driven, confident side of you, because as a mum you don’t get told you’re doing a good job – you can do everything right but you will never know because you don’t have a performance review as a parent!”

Are there other things at play when it comes to a loss of confidence in your career?

“Ageism is a big thing, and again we have to fight against external and internalised attitudes. Employers and individuals need to stop seeing post-40 years as being past peak or entering final stages of our career – we still have 20 years of work ahead of us! I have done so much more in my 40s and 50s  professionally and personally than I ever did – or indeed ever could have – in my 20s and 30s, so don’t buy into the narrative that it is too late.”

What practical steps do you talk about in the book to help people prepare for and come back from a career break?

“First, everything is so much easier if you have kept in touch with your industry and colleagues  – if you haven’t it is much easier now to seek them out and reach out again – gone are the days of the gatekeeper PA and trying to book an appointment to meet senior people. Being on LinkedIn is essential as that is where all jobs and connections are. People are really willing to offer advice and take time to meet you if you reach out to them, especially those that know what you are good at. You need to have those conversations to bring the other side of you back out.

Take part as much as you can while you are out of the workplace – networking events, online webinars, parent meetings, whatever will put you in touch with the right people – it’s all in your hands to open the door and get out there.

Don’t feel it is insurmountable, remember that there are other ways to work and find paid employment – taking on freelance projects or by joining organisations like Obelisk – every little bit helps to add to your CV, keep your skills up to date, and keep in touch with peers. All this will make it easier to step up when you are ready.

And don’t put your head in the sand when it comes to finances, plan for your financial future!”

A big concern! How do you encourage women to think long term about their career and financial position?

“Again, it’s up to us. We can’t just leave it to legislation and employers – only 2% men took up shared parental leave last year, we still have a culture where men fear their career will be harmed if they do, and that will take a long time to change.

Women need to view work like a game of chess, and play the long game. We often look at cost of childcare for the first year or so and decide it is not worth it, but we should be thinking about what happens in 8 to ten years’ time. If you decide to step back completely, after 5 years childcare costs go down but your market value has gone down even more. Short term sacrifices are worthwhile if you want to continue your career so take the initial financial hit if you can, take a part time role, pass up a project or promotion if it helps you keep your foot in the door.”

One thing that we commonly see women returning to work find difficult is how to present themselves on their CV. What advice would you give?

“It’s important to see your CV or LinkedIn profile as a marketing tool. Employers spend on average just 8 SECONDS scanning a CV for suitability so your opening paragraph must be compelling – again don’t lead with what you want, lead with what you have to offer. Another thing people don’t often realise is that recruiters use software to scan for keywords in CVs first, so make sure you are hitting all the points from the job description.

When it comes to addresses your career break, don’t jump through hoops trying to justify it with irrelevant information about being part of the PTA and so on, as it comes across defensive. Appear confident about it! Just write ‘Planned Career Break’ and the length of time. Keep the most relevant information at the top with an experience or skills summary – don’t bury the good stuff on page 2, even if it did all happen 20 years ago. Finally if you have had lots of similar part time or short contract roles list them together and summarise details in one paragraph rather than listing bullets for each to keep things more concise.”

How should lawyers seek to update their skills to become more employable in technologically fast changing market?

“As a lawyer, you will know plenty of other lawyers, so talk to them to find out what you don’t know and what gaps you need to fill. It’s so much easier now than it used to be to keep up with technology and learn independently. There are many free resources on the internet, so search for YouTube tutorials and online courses. Most technology being used today is intuitive and designed to be user friendly, so it is often a case of simply using and learning as you go – just take the time to do it. Get to grips with social media management tools such as Hootsuite to make it easier to post regularly to market yourself.”

Lisa also agrees that being part of platforms like Obelisk Support is beneficial as they provide help keeping skills up to date, such as our recent LexisPSL introductory webinar, and regular events focusing on current developments in the industry.

Final thoughts

The bottom line as Lisa states is, no one will do it for you. There is support out and information there if you reach out and look for it. Your career and success before you took a break came about because of you and the work you put in – you are still the key to your own success.

Lisa and Deb don’t just tell you all the things you need to hear in She’s Back – the book also contains useful exercises that you can carry out to help you on your way. Lisa recommends that you find a friend to do them with you, so you can challenge one another and stay motivated. She’s Back is shortlisted for CMI’s Management Book of the Year 2019 and can be purchased on Amazon. You can find out more about their work on www.shesback.co.uk

Making Work, Work

On 12 July 2010, Obelisk Support was founded. Now one of the fastest-growing independent businesses in Europe, Obelisk Support has become a leading legal services provider with a purpose – to make human first a priority. To celebrate how far we have come with our clients and consultants, here is a true story that illustrates how putting human first and how working differently can make a big difference in the legal world.

This UK-qualified lawyer trained at Walker Martineau in 1980 and went on to work 20 years at Sinclair Roche & Temperley, first as a solicitor and finally as a managing partner. In 2002, he became partner of two subsequent law firms until in 2005, his career changed course and he worked seven years at Ince & Co. In May 2014, he was made redundant.

He was 30+ years PQE.  Not an easy proposition in a market hungry for younger lawyers.

Three months later in August 2014, he contacted Obelisk Support and became an Obelisk legal consultant. His first job at Obelisk, with a large banking group, came in 2015 and, as it was successful, he started getting more confident working as a freelance lawyer. In 2017, a global law firm interviewed him for a senior experienced project finance lawyer position. He couldn’t do it right then, because of other commitments, but if they would wait a few months, he could.

Impressed by his expertise, the global law firm offered him a flexible hours job that he started in January 2018. Based on his experience in similar projects, he was able to scope the job and kept his team updated as and when he was progressing on the complex documents. A freelance career gave him the control he needed at a stage of his life when the legal industry is not the most supportive.

Making Work, Work

There has been a major shift in focus on workplace culture for both new and established companies. Culture is the catch all buzz-word to cover everything from office features to ethos. It is a widely welcome trend, as it places higher importance on employee happiness and sense of belonging in the workplace. However, there may be a problem emerging in terms of diversity. In particular, culture may be the reason that older, more experienced workers are being overlooked for roles. One phrase that seems to have become an alternative way of saying ‘you are too old for us’ is ‘not a good culture fit’.

The wrong approach to culture means recruitment becomes a search for people who look like themselves, generally people of similar backgrounds around the same age as them, and could also end up masking discrimination based on age, gender, race and sexual orientation. A lack of gender and racial diversity in an organisation usually raises alarm bells fairly quickly, and rightly so. However, there is a risk that ‘ageism’ can become an ‘acceptable’ form of discrimination in the workplace. On the one hand, we are being told that age is nothing but a number, and we are living and working longer. On the other hand, attitudes in recruitment are slower to catch up. With more people taking career breaks, building portfolio careers and deviating from that traditional linear career path, it’s a problem acutely felt by lawyers who have many years of PQE. A role that would have traditionally been taken at an earlier stage in a traditional linear career is now being sought by anyone who is looking to diversify their experience and work in a different way.

As we live longer and work longer we are seeing more generations working together than ever before. Add to that the rapid technological advancement of companies, there may be a tendency to look for younger recruits who are of the digital generation. A fifth of employees surveyed across Europe by ADP cited age as the biggest barrier to their career progression, with older people feeling particularly isolated. There is also a suggestion that this impacts women more than men, according to research from Tulane University.

As our Agony Aunt has previously discussed, a rigid approach to PQE creates barriers for both young and old. Someone who falls short of the magic number of years PQE because they took a career break, but has amassed valuable transferable skills during that time is more likely be overlooked. Likewise, someone who is looking to change their work patterns and ‘side step’ into a role requiring less experienced is looked at sceptically for being ‘overqualified.’ This coded language of too senior for a role, or the culture fit is wrong really indicates the belief that the person is too old and may be a threat in some way. Technology advancement has allowed us to take more control over our working lives, and employees and employers alike support the virtues of flexible work and non-traditional career paths. Yet when it comes to a number on a CV, it seems age is still used in the old fashioned way as a measure of experience and a person’s value to a company.

If employers value their working culture, they should value individual richness of experience. As we move away from focusing on the hours clocked in at the office, at the same time we should no longer be reducing people to the number of years they have on the clock. A greater mix of generations does create new challenges, but with open communication they can be dispelled. The benefits of shared life experience, a range of insights and perspectives far outweigh those challenges.